January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

Where was Joe? The world wasn't clamouring for rematches with Quarry and Ellis.
Norton and Frazier fought well against Ali, but both of them had real trouble
with other talented heavies. Frazier's stature, in my mind, has been diminished
at least a little by his lack of going after and/or beating the strongest
competition after 1970. Where was the challenge in taking on Quarry and
especially Ellis a second time? Quarry was at least coming off an impressive KO
of Shavers (and should have avoided Frazier and targeted Foreman instead). But
Frazier-Ellis II. offered nothing to fans---no intrique at all. Bugner?
Stander? What about Shavers, Lyle and Norton? Again, where was Joe? |
|8/17/04 12:43:40 PM|Forest Ward|NYC||NYC.com||||10|Strangely enough, I remember
Joe Frazier's career a little differently from the way it has been described on
this board recently.Regarding Lyle and Shavers, they were both highly
rated when they were beaten convincingly by Jerry Quarry. Quarry was then
elevated to number 2 ranking, just behind Ali. At one point Quarry and Gil
Clancy claimed that Foreman and Ali were afraid to fight Quarry. When Joe fought
Quarry the 2nd time, Quarry was favored in that fight. Joe beat him easier the
2nd time than he did the first time. So much for Joe ducking Shavers and
LyleThere were two fighter Jim Wicks would not allow Henry Cooper to
fight: Sonny Liston, and Joe Frazier. Patterson was repeatedly offered fights
with Frazier in the late 60's and early 70's but he turned them down. Ernie
Terrell could not draw flies at the box office. Who would pay to see Terrrell
fight Frazier, no one. Besides, Terrell retired for a few years after he was
defeated by Manuel Ramos. Who Frazier then knocked out in 2 rounds. As far as
ducking Liston in the late 60's, Frazier had a lot of company. Liston was
clamoring for a fight with any top contender, no one would fight him, until his
old sparring partner Leotis Martin took him on and knocked him
out.Regarding the fights with Stander and Daniels, it is an unwritten
rule in boxing that after a hard defense a champ is allowed a few easy ones.
Look at the guys Ali defended against: Coopman, London,Blin...|
|8/17/04 01:55:15 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|But Lyle
and Shavers both recovered after the losses to JQ and put together very decent
careers.Lyle beat Shavers, looked good in losing to Ali and had the epic
slugfest with Foreman. Shavers won a lot more than he lost, was always
considered a dangerous KO artist, got his title shot against Ali, had two
battles with Holmes and took out Norton in a round. Norton had the bouts with
Ali, the KO win over Bobick, the decision over Young, the defense against
Holmes---an active boxer through the 70's. Again, I ask, with Shavers, Lyle and
Norton this active, and Frazier fighting steadily through 1976, and still on
record (albeit against Jumbo Cummings) in 1981, why didn't he face any of the
divisions best talent? I understand the Quarry rematch, but why an Ellis
rematch? Why Terry Daniels?Where was Joe? |
|8/17/04 02:06:02 PM|John Gerard|NYC||rock289z@yahoo.com||||10|FOREST: Jim Wick
would also never let Henry Cooper fight George Chuvalo. Chuvalo was the number
one contender for the British Commonwealth title for more than a decade. Chuvalo
even offered to fight Cooper in London. But no go.|
|8/17/04 04:05:37 PM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|Both Ron Lyle
and Earnie Shavers were still working their way up the ladder to top contender
status before 1975, which was Joe Frazier's last year as a serious contender.
They both likely could have fought Frazier if they had beaten Quarry, which they
didn't. Frazier didn't duck them, he was already almost finished with his
career by the time they were emerging as top contenders and he never should have
taken the second fight with Foreman let alone the fight with Cummings about five
years later.Frazier took the second Quarry fight to earn another title
shot and he took the second Ellis fight as a tune up for his third fight with
Ali because of Ellis' similar style to Ali. Remember once again that at the
time of Frazier/Quarry 2 both Lyle and Shavers had not earned the right to fight
in a title elimination bout, which is what Frazier/Quarry 2 was.|