January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

for another truckload of money. Joe fought for money. Jerry knocked off all of
those guys for him and he fought Jerry instead. None of those guys were ever
mentioned to fight Frazier. |
|8/19/04 04:24:19 PM|Timana|Auckland||kiwi@hotmail.com||||10|What have Louis,
Armstrong, Ali, Monzon, Leonard, Hagler, Duran, and all the other all time
greats got in common ? The answer is that there was not even a hint that they
ducked anyone in their careers.First of all some of you guys said Joe
didn't fight Norton because of friendship. Then we find out that it was money.
Now some of you are conceding that, "yeah, well, he didn't fight Liston or Lyle,
but he woulda kicked theur butts anyway."Or some will make the excuse
that Joe was just being "carefully matched."(I agree, Forest, some of
this is getting ridiculous.)The reasons managers "carefully match" a
fighter are because he is vulnerable and beatable against the guy they are
trying to avoid. Look, Joe fought some great fights and will always be
highly regarded by the true boxing fan. But that doesn't put him up there with
the very, very best. He was not truly a great on one or two performances against
Ali. Those performances are forever shadowed by the thrashings Foreman gave him
and the fighters he ducked.It's one thing to be a fan of someone; it's
quite another to ignore the reality of their shortcomings.And Kent, you
said that Lyle and Shavers were mid to late 1970s fighters. By 1975 Lyle was 33
and Shavers was 30 and Frazier was only 31. There was only three years
difference in age. Thanks, any way, because I have enjoyed the debate.|
|8/19/04 04:32:25 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Well then,
it seems as though Joe was just very fortunate because everything timed out
perfectly for him. He never had to face the power punchers (who might have
lifted him off the floor like Foreman did) on his way to the Manilla title
shot.Lucky Joe. Lucky too because he's being lauded as an alltime great and
he had just 37 professional fights. As well, when you start to look at his
opponents' records (I did), you realize that they might just have the worst
winning percentage of any group of opponents that heavyweight champions have
faced, both on the way to the title and while defending it. Guys, he fought
infrequently and he fought more than a few stiffs. Go to any search engine and
look up "heavyweight boxer terry daniels." Look at his won-loss record. This
is who Frazier and/or his management settled on for a title defense? Give me a
break. If you're going to put this all on his management, he could have fired
them. Frankly, if everyone here feels Frazier's management did the right thing
by avoiding real challenges and instead hand picking tomato cans and recycled
opponents for Frazier to pound on and look good against---then let's never write
another negative word about how Bobick or Cooney were "protected" as they
climbed the ladder to title shots. Maybe the only thing worse than a less than
world class fighter avoiding live opponents on their way to the title shot is a
seemingly world class champion avoiding live opponents and instead facing off
against Ron Stander. I will never accuse Frazier of being a coward---he fought
Ali with a courageous streak and got up off the canvas countless times against
Foreman, but his management acted cowardly in shielding him from live fighters.
The upside is that he won the title and defended it a couple times---and got
another shot at it. The downside, or I should say "consequences" of this tactic
is that we must not put him in the company of Ali, Louis, Liston, Holmes or
other champions who took all comers. |
|8/19/04 05:06:56 PM|Timana|Auckland||same||||10|Some of your comments, Forest,
beggar belief, and I'm worrying about the sanity of these guys who think you
nailed it one hundred percent. You rhetorically ask whether "anyone
believes for a second that Frazier ducked Young" and you then added that Young
was beaten by Neuman and Ocasio. The inference, of course, is that Frazier would
have been the surest of sure things, given that Young was beaten by comparative
bums.But Forest, Young beat Foreman and Foreman thrashed
Frazier......TWICE ! Your own logic defeats your own argument.You ask