January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

their best, were something special to see.I know the longevity issue
makes people rank Frazier lower than I would rank him but I go more by how good
a fighter would be at his very peak and not how long that peak lasted.An
exception to this rule would be James "Buster" Douglas as his peak was just one
fight, his win over Tyson. One fight is just not enough to establish
greatness.|
|9/19/05 09:40:01 AM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Kent: I'd
have to look back at old rankings to see if there's an explanation as to why
Holmes missed these fights. Weren't some of these guys most potent at the tail
end of Holmes' career? Tate wasn't, but I thought Greg Page came later.
Cooetzee was beaten by Tate, wasn't he? Then Weaver beat Tate. It seems like
the guys you mentioned had losses on their records that were bad timing---
keeping them out of a match against Holmes. I'm foggy on this and don't feel
like checking, but did Holmes fight Witherspoon? Witherspoon came late in
Holmes' career as well. Don King prevented Witherspoon from being a great
fighter/great Champion.|
|9/19/05 10:26:22 AM|Massimo|Roma||4||||10|Something Noam said made me think (or
got me thinking). He is right when he says that Buster Mathis was not ranked in
top 10 by Ring Magazine at the time of his fight with Frazier. He actually was
NEVER ranked in the top 10 by RM, anytime in his career. Buster Mathis proved to
be a very good fighter in 4 fights: Wipperman, Lincoln, Chuvalo and Frazier. But
my point is that he had never proved it before the Frazier fight. What had
Buster ever done to deserve a fight for the NYSAC title against Joe Frazier in
1968 ? I know he did beat Joe twice in the amateurs but this is not enough to
deserve a title fight. Al Blue Lewis was rated in the top 10 by Ring Magazine in
1968. He would have deserved a shot at Frazier for the title more than Buster
Mathis. Sonny Liston was rated in the top 10 by Ring Magazine in 1968 but I
think he had been banned from fighting in the USA at the time. Again, why did
they think to the unranked Buster Mathis as a challenger to Joe Frazier for the
NYSAC title ?Anyway, I remain of the idea that Joe Frazier at his very best
(first Ali' fight and first Ellis fight) was a real bulldozer, very hard to beat
for any fighter (mostly if this fighter wasn't a devastating puncher).|
|9/19/05 10:56:36 AM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Mac Foster
vs. Frazier, 1969----outcome????|
|9/19/05 11:01:18 AM|Kent|Murrieta, ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|Angelo, all
of the fighters I named held at one time the rival WBA title when Holmes was WBC
champion or either the WBA title or WBC title when Holmes was IBF champion at
some point between 1978 and 1985 when Holmes was champion.Yes Coetzee
did lose to Tate and Weaver as well. But then Weaver lost to Dokes who was
beaten by Coetzee for the WBA title. I do know Coetzee lost his belt to
Page but I forget who the others beat for their titles. It does get confusing
after a while as these guys didn't hold their titles for
long.Witherspoon fought Holmes for the WBC title in 1983 and came very
close to winning when Holmes was still near his peak. Of course Spoon later
joined the "alphabet soup" title game.|
|9/19/05 12:38:27 PM|Gerry|Cleveland||same||||10|Some excellent stuff on Frazier
and the tourney in 1967. Noam makes some very good points. Joe did take, we
might say, a smart road which allowed him to fight at the top of the sport
without having the attrition of rounds that most other top heavies had.I
still argue that because of the way he fought, Joe still got away with very
little. He had to chase, with short reach, and take punches on the way in, and
he clearly did fight at least most of the top guys of his day.I guess if it
can be argued that Holmes missed opponents, so did Joe.I do not dismiss the
NYSAC title because of the guy who held it, we'll just have to disagree
there.Holmes did fight Witherspoon, the first judge gave to Holmes 116-114,
the second was for Witherspoon by the same score, the third judge was apparently
for more whiskey sours, perhaps writing Holmes name on the score card every