January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

him. The 'superhuman' theory is hard to accept when we remember that
Foreman did it twice to him. Lightning didn't strike twice; it was just a vastly
superior fighter exerting his dominance.Foreman wasn't superhuman. You
put Foreman in with Louis 10 times and Louis would win 8 or 9 times. Put Frazier
in with Foreman 10 times and Foreman wins 10.Frazier was in his prime
when he fought Foreman. He was only 29 or 30.Frazier only ever fought
two of the legitimate greats - Foreman and Ali. He lost twice against Foreman
and two out of three against Ali. We can't pick and choose and say, "oh
well that really wasn't our Joe on that particular night, and Foreman was a
superhuman freak for that night only." It doesn't work like that.Foreman
fought Frazier twice, and he humiliated him twice. Enough said. And hence Joe's
management ducked big hitters and even a few guys who weren't big
hitters.Think about Joe's greatest performances. They were all against
Ali. He needed the hate he had for Ali to really perform.I have to say
that Joe lacked smarts too. Ali could adapt to different fighters and
environments. But Joe only knew one way, and that made him vulnerable to
monsters like Foreman.I can't help but think that a lot of Frazier's
popularity is because of Ali's unpopularity with the exact same people. I've
never met a Frazier fan yet who likes Ali. It's like it's mutually
exclusive. But most Ali fans are ambivalent towards Frazier, or at least are in
my experience. Winners are grinners I suppose, although for heart and courage
Joe was right up there with the greats. I only question his ability. |
|8/20/04 10:38:04 AM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|Timana,
Foreman really only destroyed Frazier once, in their first fight. In their
second fight Frazier was a shot used up fighter who should not have been in the
ring. Still he had a good plan of trying to box and last until the later
rounds, only to get caught and knocked out in the fifth round. Joe had no
intelligance in the ring? Well in the second Foreman fight at least he tried to
change and he deserves credit for that.Frazier not an all time great?
Maybe he didn't have a long period of greatness but I would put the Smokin Joe
of 1968 to 1971 in with any of the greats and he would hold his own with any of
them, including Foreman.Consider this, Frazier got caught and hurt early
in the first Foreman fight, what if this doesn't happen and he survives the
early Foreman onslaught and he starts to smokin full steam ahead? By the third
round Joe is bobbing and weaving and digging hooks and right hands to the body
and head of Foreman, non-stop. Frazier never hit Foreman with his best punches,
just one token left hook that was not the kind of hook that destroyed Ellis and
knocked down Ali. How would Foreman stand up to Joe's best punches? I believe
that if Lyle and especially Ali, could hurt Foreman with their punches, than
Frazier could hurt him also.Another thing is that Frazier was a slow
starter, the time to catch and hurt him was early, say before the third round,
before he got to smoking full steam ahead. That Frazier was a slow starter can
be seen by the fact that in just about all of Frazier's biggest fights, he lost
the first round and often the second round as well. This happened in all three
Ali fights, both Ellis fights, both Quarry fights, the Mathis fight, and Frazier
was knocked down twice in the first Bonevena fight in the second round only to
take the fight to Bonevena in the rest of the fight to win a decision.
My point is, you can't just assume Frazier at very best, gets blown out
ten out of ten times against Foreman as there are other factors involved such as
Foreman tiring if his opponent lasts later into the fight. In a different
scenario to the classic Smokin Joe moving in and taking the fight to his
opponent, I could see a fresher Frazier, with better reflexes than the 1976
Frazier, fighting defensively for six rounds and surviving, like he tried in
1976, and then smokin full steam ahead from round seven on to win a decision or
more likely knock out an exhausted Foreman. |
|8/20/04 10:56:40 AM|Joe Krause|Chicago||sadmspats@yahoo.com||||10|Frazier
retires 27-0 beats a long list of quality fighters and retires undefeated after