January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

possibly even knocked him down, but Joe would have recoverd just to press and
beat him to a pulp. I don't know why Sonny wasn't in the tournment. I do know
that by the late 60's he was back in the top 10.|
|2/28/05 04:58:12 PM|Forest Ward|NYC||raymccormack2003@yahoo.com||||10|Kent, now
it's becoming a little more clearer to me. The Ali worshippers main argument is
that Ali fought better opponents than Frazier. Well, for their information Ali
fought better opponents than any champion ever, in any weight class. How come
they don't attack the other champions with the same zeal they attack Frazier.
Could it be all they know or care about in boxing is what they read about
Ali?The problem I have with the Ali worshippers is that they disparage
Frazier constantly. Ocassionaly they throw a nice word in about Frazier, but,
normally they make it very personal when they attack Joe.By in large, I
find their knowledge about the subtle points of boxing lacking. As Ali
historians they rank very high, as boxing historians, well, not so high. How can
a so called boxing historian yammer about the great opponents Ali fought and
beat, and then ignore Ali's life after boxing. Ali's health was undenialably
related to the opponents Ali fought. One cannot separate the two. It's like
saying Doc Kearns was the greatest manager who ever lived because of what Kearns
did with Dempsey. But, forgetting about what Kearns did with Mickey Walker.
Which was putting Walker a great welterweight and middleweight in with
heavyweights. Like Ali Walker never ducked anyone. And as a result Walker
sufferred severe brain damage. But, Kearns like some of the Ali worshippers was
not interested in Walkers life after boxing. Frazier's management cared
about him and they made fights which enabled him to become wealthy and the
Heavyweight champion of the world. One of the subtle point the worshippers miss
is that the name of the game is too make as money as possible while protecting
your fighter at the same time. For thes people to denigrate Frazier and
Frazier's opponent shows how myopic their boxing perspective is. Especially when
on considers the goals of the Jerry Quarry Foundation|
|2/28/05 06:32:58 PM|Howard
C.|Louisville||howardc@louisville||||10|ForestJust because someone
disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are wrong and that you are a super
brain. Likewise, disagreeing with you doesn't make someone an "Ali lover". Sorry
to ruin the allusions that sustain your adulation of Frazier.
MassimoFrazier fought Bonavena the second time because he
thought the first effort from Oscar was a fluke. Jimmy Ellis and Zora Folley had
knocked Bonavena down. Joe thought he'd do the same thing easily the second
time.AngeloThe issue is not whether Liston, Folley, Terrell,
Norton, Lyle, and Shavers would have beaten Frazier; the issue is whether they
would have been more competitive than some of the stiffs Joe frequently faced
(Stander, Daniels, Zyglwicz, et al).KentThe point is that
Frazier never fought Shavers, whether it was warranted in 1974 and 1975 or
whenever. He preferred to fight guys that presented no challenge to him, usually
non-punchers rather than unpredictable punchers like Shavers and
Lyle.You say that the second Frazier fight against Ellis in March 1975
was a "tune up". It was more a post mortem. Ellis hadn't won a fight for years.
After the first fight Joe knew he presented no danger and had called him a
"sissy" and "pudding" (thanks for the research Noam).Ellis was a way out
of form fighter but that didn't stop Frazier fighting him. Yet he wouldn't fight
the out of form Shavers because he had a punch and Ellis didn't.Joe
couldn't sell the farcical Ellis fight in America. The fight stank. He was
fighting a washed-up stiff with no chance. So Joe took the fight to the other
end of the planet in some placed called Melbourne, Australia, where gullible
fight-starved fans would pay to watch. No one else on planet earth would take
the fight.Forest, I know it upsets you, but in the interests of truth it
must be said: Joe wasn't a take a risk warrior searching for higher mountains to
climb and new horizons to explore. He didn't ask himself, "Who would be the best