January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

1974 Lyle beats KirkmanFeb 1975 Young beats LyleMay
1975 Ali beats LyleInstead of Frazier fighting Ellis in
February 1975, he should have instead fought Lyle. After all, Lyle had only
months earlier been Ellis's conqueror.But, then again, Frazier's goal
(Ali and Foreman aside) was to fight the easiest and not the most dangerous.
Smart management. And Joe wasn't in the same ring at the same time as Jimmy
Young, either (the guy who beat Lyle). But let's make Forest happy and call a
Young v Frazier a "deeming fight". We'll deem Frazier the winner because Forest
says that he would have won.(Problem is Forest probably would have
called Foreman v Young a "deeming fight" also and we all know what happened
there.) If the fight never happens, how can you ever be entirely sure of the
result ? |
|6/30/05 07:33:13 AM|Massimo |Roma||4||||10|In Frazier's defense, he took a big
risk when he fought Oscar Bonavena in his 11 professional fight. In his
autobiografy Joe said that he was really in "big damn trouble" after the first
knockdown! He did get up and won and probably (but of course I can't be sure) he
would have done the same against Lyle, Liston, Mac Foster and Shavers. I have
just seen again the Ali'-Lyle fight, and I have to question Lyle's chin! Ali'
could never beat Frazier up in that way, like he was his daddy (Slang)! Lyle
would have never survived the eleventh round if the referee hadn't stop it! |
|6/30/05 01:40:42 PM|Forest Ward|NYC||NYC||||10|Noam, Frazier fought Quarry in
1969, I don't know anything about an elimination tournament he avoided in 1969.
You an Angelo are very loose when it comes to details. You guys float your
opinions on this board; and pretend they are backed by facts, which they are
not. And them when you are called on them you guys reply to the effect, "oh I am
sorry, I did not mean that."Noam, you celebrate Ali's record. But, you
basically ignore the fact that Ali has been punch drunk for 25 years. Although
you claim you noticed that Ali was becoming punchy in 1974 before the Foreman
fight. And yet you celebrate all the destructive fights Ali had. These fights
caused Ali to become punchy. And yet you fault Frazier because he did not have
unnecessary fights. A fight expert like you Noam can't celebrate Ali's
for his great record and then ignore the fact that he punchy. Ali has a great
fight record and you admire him for that. The fact that he is brain damage
doesn't really concern you. I guess you wished it did not happen, but it is part
of the game. With that attitude I can see why you dislike Frazier.You
jump to the assumption that Frazier did not have these unnecessary because his
management was afraid Frazier would loose. Frazier's management was more
concerned about making money, making Joe the champion, and preventing him from
becoming punch drunk. You don't like that do you? Instead, you pretend Frazier
ducked fighters. You can't accept the idea that is why Frazier retired
relatively healthy and Ali retired with severe brain damgage, that only gets
worse with timeNoam, let me ask you a question. If you had a magic wand
and if you waved it, Ali would once again be healthy. Ali would be able to talk.
he would be able to sing. He could shuffle a deck of cards. His hands would not
shake. And he could walk unassisted without somebody by his arm. Noam, you get
the picture, but before you wave the magic wand you have remove from Ali's fight
history those unnecessary fights he had that damaged him. Such as Bonavena,
Norton 1,2,3 Lyle, Shavers, Frazier #3, Holmes, Berbic. These fights
were not necessary to prove Ali's greatness. But they certainly contributed to
his brain damage. Would you wave that wand, and remove those fights from Ali's
history, and make him healthy again? |
|6/30/05 05:14:17 PM|Kent|Murrieta, Ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|Noam, the key
point your are missing is in June 1974 Frazier beat Jerry Quarry, who in 1973
had defeated Lyle and for that matter Shavers too.So Joe took the winner
to earn his title shot, not the loser. It would make more sense if you said Joe
should have fought Young, who in Feb. 1975 beat Lyle but since the target for
Frazier to fight again while waiting for his shot at Ali was March, it is