January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

all the questions asked about Frazier's missing opponents, Kent has only been
able to zero in on the one regarding Shavers. While Howard C. can answer it
himself, Kent even had to narrow the question down to a very specific period of
1974. (Apparently, waiting to fight Joe was like watching for Hayley's Comet to
reappear every 75 years - the window of opportunity was miniscule).In
1974 Shavers didn't have much doing. He beat Wallace, lost to Stallings, and
drew with Jimmy Young. Okay, not much.Even so, in early 1975 Frazier
chose to fight Ellis, the guy he ridiculed as being a "sissy" and "pudding".
Ellis hadn't posted a win in his last four fights.In 1973 Shavers fought
Young, Carter, Ellis, and Quarry. He was available to fight Frazier, if Frazier
had wanted to fight him. Who would the fans have wanted to see fight ? Frazier v
Ellis or Frazier v Lyle ?Kent - Frazier made his bed and now he has to
sleep in it. There were too many guys he didn't fight and they were all
dangerous punchers. I'll tell you something else; Lyle would have
knocked Joe out had they fought after 1974. Joe ducked him, too. Believe it.
After all, Mike Bruce floored Joe in Joe's second pro fight. And don't
forget that Bonavena put Joe down twice. After the second knockdown Joe admits
that he "grabbed and clinched" to survive the second round. This all happened to
a prime Joe. Imagine what a Lyle boomer would have done to an over-the-hill
Frazier.When given a choice between dangerous punchers, "sissies",
"tomato cans", "dogmeat" and "dead bodies to beat up on, " Joe rarely chose the
dangerous punchers. Fact. |
|2/28/05 02:59:21 PM|Noam|same||same||||10|I somehow substituted the name Lyle
instead of Shavers in one of my questions below. You'll know when you get to
it.Kent, I hope you don't misinterpret my tone as being disrespectful.
However, debate is less awkward when robust as it becomes tiresome and boring to
be overly polite. The debate on Frazier has been enjoyable and I'm sure our
knowledge of his career is better as a result.I'd make another point
about Joe. Usually an apsiring young fighter on the way up pads his record by
fighting 'name' guys on the way down.Unfortunately, with Joe the reverse
seems to be true. While he was still around the top echelon, he was padding his
record with 'name' guys he had already beaten like Quarry and Ellis who had both
seen better days. I say he did this to avoid guys he hadn't beaten. |
|2/28/05 03:07:29 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Noam: You
can't dispute this: Ellis was a better tune-up for Frazier in 1975 than Lyle
would have been. Why? Well, he had a cakewalk with Ellis, but had he fought
Lyle, I have a feeling Joe would be looking up at the lights around the third or
fourth round and they'd still be counting today. Poof goes Manilla.|
|2/28/05 03:53:51 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|To everyone
out there who has been on the "Frazier Skeptics" side with me (and everyone else
for that matter)---I do have question to pose: Realistically speaking, around
1967-68, would Sonny Liston have a chance to beat Frazier? We (including me)
have said that Frazier might have ducked Liston, but by the middle-late 60's
Liston was a few years removed from the title. I know he could still fight
right up to the end (I have his bout against Wepner on tape), but he wasn't
nearly the fighter he was in the early 60's. We're talking six, seven years, at
least, past his prime. Frazier was about in his prime. How would Sonny have
done against the much younger Smokin' Joe? Also, why wasn't Sonny included in
that tournament? |
|2/28/05 04:37:48 PM|Massimo |Roma ||4||||10|Thanks Noam for the interesting
explainations, now I got (or have, or have got-it's all the same) another
question: why did Frazier fight Bonavena a second time, a pretty hard puncher
who had already hurt and knocked him down ? Angelo-I think
Frazier would have beaten Liston in 1967-68. By that time the only thing Liston
had left was his left jab, his only weapon against Wepner. I think Joe would
have avoided his left jab by bobbing and weaving and outsmoked him on points or
by late round stoppage. Sonny might have hurt Frazier once during the fight and