January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

explanation in his book. He says that there was no money in fighting Norton.
Uhmmm. Was there more money for Joe to fight Ellis the second time ? Stander
and Daniels, too ? But let's use your explanation, Wilard, and not
Joe's. Wouldn't Joe have cleaned up Stander and Daniels sparring ? Yet he fought
them and not Norton. Don't forget that Ali used to clean Ellis's clock
sparring. Yet Ali fought Ellis. Come to think of it, Ali used to clean a guy
called Larry Holmes up when they sparred. Yet Larry beat Ali. If someone
really wants to fight the best, they find a way of doing it. Likewise, if they
don't want to fight the best, they'll always try to find a plausible explanation
to excuse it. Problem is, those explanations don't always hold water. In fact,
Joe's explanations are leaking so water, ducks could procreate in it. |
|10/17/05 05:27:51 AM|Willard|Florida||a@a.com||||10|Someone mentioned that a
referee or boxing historian or someone kept saying that fighters were ducking
Frazier. What's Frazier gonna do? Drag them into the ring and fight? If they
won't fight, there is nothing he can do about it.Well, Cosell, let's
hear what you have to say about Shavers and Lyle. How would they match up
against Frazier?|
|10/17/05 08:33:38 AM|Joey|Canada||a||||10|" Come to think of it, Ali used to
clean a guy called Larry Holmes up when they sparred. Yet Larry beat Ali.
"HOWARD, it was pretty clear that ALI was more than finished when he
fought LARRY. Had ALI & HOLMES met when both fighters were at the top of their
game, I think it would have been a great contest, a classic! As for
FRAZIER'S opponents(DOYLE,ZYGLEWICZ)he fought these guys on the way up. They
were mid card players but all fighters, if they are managed properly are brought
along strategically. The fact remains that FRAZIER fought the two best fighters
of that era...ALI & FOREMAN and managed to beat one of them, so...|
|10/17/05 08:34:55 AM|Joey|Canada||a||||10|" Come to think of it, Ali used to
clean a guy called Larry Holmes up when they sparred. Yet Larry beat Ali.
"HOWARD, it was pretty clear that ALI was more than finished when he
fought LARRY. Had ALI & HOLMES met when both fighters were at the top of their
game, I think it would have been a great contest, a classic! As for
FRAZIER'S opponents(DOYLE,ZYGLEWICZ)he fought these guys on the way up. They
were mid card players but all fighters, if they are managed properly are brought
along strategically. The fact remains that FRAZIER fought the two best fighters
of that era...ALI & FOREMAN and managed to beat one of them, so...|
|10/17/05 08:51:02 AM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Willard:
I'm an Ali fan, but I'm the first to say "no excuses" for his loss to Frazier.
Ali had the long layoff, yet he beat a couple very good fighters leading up to
the match against Frazier. My opinion is that Ali underestimated Frazier's
ability. Ali was undefeated---and had a knack for calling the round that fights
would end. He beat the legendary Liston early in his career and beat highly
ranked Jerry Quarry after being out of the ring for over three years. I think
he figured Frazier would give him some resistance, but he would overcome it to
win a very easy decision, or win by TKO. Instead, he found out that Frazier
fought like he was possessed---was harder to hit than the films made it look---
had no quit in him---and was truly world class. Ali had counted on speed in the
mid-60's and now that speed was diminished. Suddenly, he was human and Frazier
was having his way. The cherry on the sundae was that knockdown. Frazier got
it done, no excuses. Now, I do take exception to you saying that Ali didn't
hurt Frazier in their fights. Manilla? Williard, Frazier's head and face were
a different shape at the end of that fight than at the beginning. And watch the
second fight again. Ali might not have "hurt" Frazier, but he clearly
outpointed him. |
|10/17/05 09:27:13 AM|Pete|Cleveland||N/A||||10|Howard C, name your top 10
welterweight champions of all times.|
|10/17/05 09:37:27 AM|Gerry|Cleveland||same||||10|I think Angelo pretty well
sums up the first Ali-Frazier scenario. Ali did underestimate some, based more